Kilmeade Asks Little Girls if Government Built Their Lemonade Stand

US News • July 2012 • Views: 1,626

Fox News host Brian Kilmeade on Tuesday offered definitive proof that President Barack Obama was wrong to say that government played a part in building businesses: a lemonade stand own by two 4- and 7-year-old girls.

Kilmeade began his segment with the Sutton sisters by playing a clip of Obama saying that business owners “didn’t build” their businesses, a clip that critics claim has been deceptively edited by both Fox News and Mitt Romney’s campaign.

“These two girls beg to differ,” the Fox News host claimed. “They built their lemonade business, not only without government help, but without any help. … Who helped you start this business?”

How hilarious is it that in his search find a business which didn’t have any help he had to go looking to kids under 10 running a lemon-aide stand. Best part is when the kid say they DID have help.

What a maroon. -BB

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59 comments

Randall Gross Tue, Jul 24, 2012 3:07:24pm

and government still built that road and sidewalk that brings people by their lemonade stand.

John Q Tue, Jul 24, 2012 3:25:01pm

… and how about the teachers that taught them how to figure out prices, how much change to give, and how to write their signs?

Obama: “If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life.”

Blue Point Tue, Jul 24, 2012 3:52:36pm

Fox News. Once again on the Cutting Edge Of Stupor. What an incisive and fact filled segment geared for the 4th grade IQ of the majority of their viewers. Next up; Bill O’Reilly argues with a bowel movement.

Buck Tue, Jul 24, 2012 4:30:40pm

Again, it is almost funny that you don’t get it. That road and sidewalk can be used by anyone. They were not made for THE LEMONADE STAND.

The education you point out was in a school full of kids. The teacher was not just teaching these girls.

WHAT makes these girls stand out from the other kids in their class… on the road?

The brains and hard work that the President was laughing at.

Either you believe that individual achievement exists, or you don’t. You can’t have it both ways.

Individual achievement, yes or no?

jaunte Tue, Jul 24, 2012 4:33:16pm

re: #4 Buck

The brains and hard work that the President was laughing at.

Wrong.

Jimmah Tue, Jul 24, 2012 4:43:26pm

re: #4 Buck

Either you believe that individual achievement exists, or you don’t. You can’t have it both ways.

When ideological fervour becomes a kind of disease:

Splitting (also called all-or-nothing thinking in cognitive distortion) may mean two things: splitting of the mind, and splitting of mental concepts (or black and white thinking). The latter is thinking purely in extremes (e.g., goodness vs. evil, innocence vs. corruption, victimization vs. oppression, etc.), and can be seen as a developmental stage and as a defense mechanism.

en.wikipedia.org

euphgeek Tue, Jul 24, 2012 4:43:48pm

re: #4 Buck

Again, it is almost funny that you don’t get it. That road and sidewalk can be used by anyone. They were not made for THE LEMONADE STAND.

The education you point out was in a school full of kids. The teacher was not just teaching these girls.

Exactly. These kids did not teach themselves, did they? They didn’t build the sidewalk and the roads did they? The funny thing is that YOU don’t seem to get it.

WHAT makes these girls stand out from the other kids in their class… on the road?

The brains and hard work that the President was laughing at.

How was the President laughing at brains and hard work? Everything he said was completely accurate.

Either you believe that individual achievement exists, or you don’t. You can’t have it both ways.

Individual achievement, yes or no?

Making this issue that black and white is idiotic. You can have individual achievement while still relying on the collective achievements of society. If it didn’t matter what society did, there would be just as many successful businesses in Somalia as there are in the USA. You seem to be arguing against American exceptionalism.

majii Tue, Jul 24, 2012 4:48:01pm

re: #4 Buck

The only Americans who believe that President Obama doesn’t give credit to individual achievement are those who never read anything he says for themselves. They take the Fox News and RW blogs highly edited videos of the president and believe them. A key feature of a democratic republic is a citizenry that possesses accurate information on politicians and its government. Although the road and sidewalk the cuties were using can be used by anyone, the girls themselves built neither the sidewalk nor the road. The government did. The point that President Obama was making is that businesses use services provided by government everyday and it makes it easier for them to conduct business. This is true. Businesses use roads, bridges, the U.S. Postal Service, etc, and built none of these. That we are interconnected is not a new concept to those of us who know that we depend on each other for some things, and who know that government provides services that individuals are unable, due to cost constraints, to provide for themselves. I’m a retired high school social studies teacher, and my goal whenever I taught anything was to reach as many of my students as possible. It was my desire that they would all learn the material, but it wasn’t always the case. Education, too, has its limits due to certain factors that are beyond a teacher’s ability to control.

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 24, 2012 5:00:15pm

re: #4 Buck

Again, it is almost funny that you don’t get it. That road and sidewalk can be used by anyone. They were not made for THE LEMONADE STAND.

The education you point out was in a school full of kids. The teacher was not just teaching these girls.

WHAT makes these girls stand out from the other kids in their class… on the road?

The brains and hard work that the President was laughing at.

Either you believe that individual achievement exists, or you don’t. You can’t have it both ways.

Individual achievement, yes or no?

You entirely miss the President’s point. Individual achievement exists, but not in a vacuum.

Also, my experience is that lemonade stands are heavily underwritten by governmental (ie parental) handouts, and tend to get bailed out when the lemonade market tanks, or the government gets sick of driving to the store to get more sugar.

The Ghost of a Flea Tue, Jul 24, 2012 5:03:53pm

re: #4 Buck

The brains and hard work that the President was laughing at.

Couldn’t resist that extra tweak of falsehood in the midst of the fallacy pile?

You just had to oversalt the broth and make Obama Socialist Snidely Whiplash.

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 24, 2012 5:04:39pm

One more question for those crying that it’s mean and untrue to say that society makes business possible—if the society around you doesn’t need to give you anything for you to make a go of it as a business owner, why are the same people who are so mad about what Obama said constantly whining that we need to do this and that to create a healthy business environment?

Surely, since it’s all down to individual achievement, we don’t need to do ANYTHING to create a healthy business environment. Right?

Buck Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:01:56pm

re: #11 SanFranciscoZionist

Surely, since it’s all down to individual achievement, we don’t need to do ANYTHING to create a healthy business environment. Right?

They are saying “get out of the way” to create a healthy business environment. So yes, “don’t do anything” in order to create a healthy business environment.

euphgeek Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:07:00pm

re: #12 Buck

Fine, go ahead and build your own roads. Hire your own security so you don’t get robbed or your own armed forces so you don’t get attacked. Put out your own fires. Heck, while we’re at it, use slave labor since you don’t want the government telling you what to pay your employees. Test your own food for botulism. Should be easy to run a business now that government has gotten out of the way, right?

Buck Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:10:59pm

And to answer all of you at once:

Yes I know Obama says BOTH things, that is what I said. However that doesn’t work for him any more.

Individual Achievement is the subject.

“Yes but it is not in a vacuum” is trying to have it both ways.

It is like saying that the winner of the race didn’t win as an individual. After all someone made the track and the shoes.

Except that people are looking past the track and the shoes. Everyone in the race used the same track and the same shoes.

Nope, the winner was the winner.

and the successful business owner doesn’t need to give credit to the roads that were built, or the government who invented the internet. Everyone got that. The business owner is just fine believing they worked harder and were smarter than the people who didn’t create the business.

Buck Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:12:17pm

re: #13 euphgeek

Fine, go ahead and build your own roads. Hire your own security so you don’t get robbed or your own armed forces so you don’t get attacked. Put out your own fires. Heck, while we’re at it, use slave labor since you don’t want the government telling you what to pay your employees. Test your own food for botulism. Should be easy to run a business now that government has gotten out of the way, right?

One more time. EVERY BUSINESS gets that. That isn’t what makes some businesses successful and others not.

andres Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:13:06pm

re: #12 Buck

They are saying “get out of the way” to create a healthy business environment. So yes, “don’t do anything” in order to create a healthy business environment.

Now, explain Africa. Why Africa, with many countries not having a government big enough to put on a Volkswagen that don’t get in the way of the private sector, struggle so much, when you, Buck*, and many “conservatives” proclaim that the smaller the government, the better the private sector? Why Africa, with a non-existent public sector, has a non-existent private sector?

——-
* Yes, you.

euphgeek Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:13:24pm

re: #15 Buck

Yes, you just proved my point. Businesses need the things that government provides in order to succeed.

Buck Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:20:27pm

re: #16 andres

Now, explain Africa. Why Africa, with many countries not having a government big enough to put on a Volkswagen that don’t get in the way of the private sector, struggle so much, when you, Buck*, and many “conservatives” proclaim that the smaller the government, the better the private sector? Why Africa, with a non-existent public sector, has a non-existent private sector?

—-
* Yes, you.

Africa is a continent. Not every country on the continent of Africa has a non-existent private sector.

Also, you are completely missing my point. It is not that there should be NO Government, only that the government services provided are provided to everyone and are a common denominator to be eliminated when explaining why it is OK for people to think that their hard work and brains are the reasons for their success.

Buck Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:27:48pm

re: #17 euphgeek

Yes, you just proved my point. Businesses need the things that government provides in order to succeed.

No, you proved my point that you are not understanding what I am saying.

No one is saying that the government should provide NO services. Only that those services are provided to EVERYONE. Everyone. The road is made and can be used by anyone who wishes to create a business that needs people to use it.

Listen to the part that Obama says that he is shocked that people think they work harder or are smarter. There are lots of people who work hard and are smart. That is mocking the people who are past the idea that the government made a road. The road is made and can be used by anyone who wishes to create a business that needs people to use it. Same with the police, or whatever you can name.

The issue is Individual Achievement. That is what people heard Obama mock and minimize. They can’t play the whole speech in a 30 second commercial, but any clip you find makes the President sound bad.

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:28:42pm

re: #19 Buck

Listen to the part that Obama says that he is shocked that people think they work harder or are smarter

You lie.

andres Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:28:48pm

re: #14 Buck

“Yes but it is not in a vacuum” is trying to have it both ways.

Actually, it’s recognizing that other people help us along the way. As Isaac Newton once said, “If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants.“

It is like saying that the winner of the race didn’t win as an individual. After all someone made the track and the shoes.

Let’s add more to your (s***ty) analogy: the coaches, the endorsers, the doctors.

The coaches that have trained you during your life. They gave you the knowledge to help you succeed.

The endorsers pay the winner so he could dedicate his time to train, and not split it with a full time job to keep up his family.

The doctors do all in their hands to keep the winner healthy, so he can compete and win.

It’s not just track and shoes: there’s a whole system build to help the track winner succeed.

Getting back to the business, the government supplies a whole infrastructure to help them succeed. Yes, there will be Solyndras, but there will be Googles, and Apples, and Microsofts, and Baens, and Carla’s Sweets that benefit from this infrastructure.

andres Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:30:22pm

re: #18 Buck

Africa is a continent. Not every country on the continent of Africa has a non-existent private sector.

Also, you are completely missing my point. It is not that there should be NO Government, only that the government services provided are provided to everyone and are a common denominator to be eliminated when explaining why it is OK for people to think that their hard work and brains are the reasons for their success.

Two things: 1) It is you who want it both ways, and 2) you didn’t answer my question.

And I have almost forgotten how masterful are you dodging answering real questions.

The Ghost of a Flea Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:30:50pm

re: #19 Buck

The issue is Individual Achievement. That is what people heard Obama mock and minimize. They can’t play the whole speech in a 30 second commercial, but any clip you find makes the President sound bad.

Liar.

Buck Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:31:02pm

re: #21 andres

It’s not just track and shoes: there’s a whole system build to help the track winner succeed.

And you SEEM TO think that anyone with the same “whole system” would win just as much. I don’t.

Buck Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:31:40pm

Ok call me liar for having a different opinion than you have.

That only makes you smaller.

Buck Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:32:50pm

re: #22 andres

Two things: 1) It is you who want it both ways, and 2) you didn’t answer my question.

And I have almost forgotten how masterful are you dodging answering real questions.

I am trying to stay on the subject and not move on to something else completely.

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:45:31pm

re: #25 Buck

Nope. Called you a liar for this:

Listen to the part that Obama says that he is shocked that people think they work harder or are smarter

Find me the quote where Obama says that he’s shocked that people think they work harder or are smarter.

Buck Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:48:30pm

re: #27 Obdicut

Nope. Called you a liar for this:

Find me the quote where Obama says that he’s shocked that people think they work harder or are smarter.

“I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.”

andres Tue, Jul 24, 2012 6:51:34pm

re: #24 Buck

And you think that anyone with the same “whole system” would win just as much. I don’t.

No, but it helps the business succeed.

Let’s get to your analogy (with my additions): Let’s remove the endorsers from the equation. The track winner has absolutely no money incoming from any type of endorsement. Can he succeed? Of course. But it also means he needs to take a full time job to pay his expenses, his family expenses, pay his coaches, pay his doctors, and pay for the trips, etc.

Now, assuming he finds a 40-hour week job that pays enough to cover all the expenses the endorsers would have covered, the athlete goes from being able to train 40-60 hours a week at the minimum to train at most 20 hours a week. We are talking that, thanks to having no endorser, he has to cut his training regime by a third. He might still be able to win, but it will be an uphill battle to do so.

What you want to equate is that, putting a mediocre athlete in the same system as the winner will not make him a winner. Perhaps, but a mediocre athlete that starts in the Shoulders of Giants can beat a better athlete that has to raise to the Giant by themselves.

Same thing happens with business. Solyndras will happen. Dot Com Bubble of the 90s will happen again (under other name). And it has happened many times before, and it will happen again. Bad business will die eventually. But giving companies the infrastructure they need so they can focus on their business without any distraction is important. It’s the best way for the government to “get out of the [business] way”: by providing the services and infrastructure to allow them to succeed.

Now, imagine if every business had to spend time getting construct their own roads and bridges, trying to get their employees fully educated so they can contribute, trying to get a full security force to protect themselves, trying to get a complete system to protect them from fires… The business will be spending most of their money, not on getting on with their business, but on all these side issues that are critical to their success.

Buck Tue, Jul 24, 2012 7:00:44pm

re: #29 andres

Don’t move so far from the actual point.

You are missing the trees for the forest. Yes the boat needs the tide to rise in order for it to rise, BUT the tide raises all the boats.

imagine if every business had to spend time getting construct their own roads and bridges, trying to get their employees fully educated so they can contribute, trying to get a full security force to protect themselves, trying to get a complete system to protect them from fires… The business will be spending most of their money, not on getting on with their business, but on all these side issues that are critical to their success.

Everyone criticizing the Presidents speech is saying they are past that stuff. Why? Because everyone gets the use of the roads and bridges. Everyone gets access to the pool of educated people… (insert all the examples in your list). None of that is why some people succeed and some do not.

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Jul 24, 2012 7:07:08pm

re: #28 Buck

“I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.”

I asked you to find a quote where Obama said he was shocked that people think they work harder or are smarter. Can you do that, or not?

andres Tue, Jul 24, 2012 7:09:03pm

re: #30 Buck

Don’t move so far from the actual point.

You are missing the trees for the forest. Yes the boat needs the tide to rise in order for it to rise, BUT the tide raises all the boats.

Everyone criticizing the Presidents speech is saying they are past that stuff. Why? Because everyone gets the use of the roads and bridges. Everyone gets access to the pool of educated people… (insert all the examples in your list). None of that is why some people succeed and some do not.

Way to dodge the issue. I’ll give it to you, Buck, you are one hell of a dodger.

But let’s see what some fool posted earlier:
re: #12 Buck

They are saying “get out of the way” to create a healthy business environment. So yes, “don’t do anything” in order to create a healthy business environment.

To create a “healthy business environment”, the government most do nothing. That’s what this damn fool is saying here. If the government does nothing, it means the current infrastructure will fail, and the “healthy business environment” becomes anything but healthy. The government is needed to provide what amounts for Shoulders of Giants to business to move forward. This is what this damn fool wants to ignore by asking the government “out of way” of business, the business will spend more time, money and effort on things not central to their goals and business.

Buck Tue, Jul 24, 2012 7:09:08pm

re: #31 Obdicut

I asked you to find a quote where Obama said he was shocked that people think they work harder or are smarter. Can you do that, or not?

Ok we again are having a problem with a common language. Do you think that someone is hitting the President? Actually striking him?

Or do you think that MAYBE he is using a common term that means surprised or shocked?

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Jul 24, 2012 7:11:56pm

re: #30 Buck

People succeed for a wide variety of reasons, in any given case. There’s rarely any one cause. Any business depends on the hard work of its employees to succeed, on some luck in the marketplace being ready for the idea, in access to capital to fund the idea, in competitors who don’t have overwhelming leverage. A lot of the time, companies don’t succeed because their competitors have too great a lock on the market, and economies of scale work against them. In many cases, it takes an enormous amount of capital in order to push back against an established business, especially if you’re going for national scope.

There is no business around that succeeded solely through the hard work of the person who founded it, except single-man consultancies and the like. Saying that all businesses have the same climate to work from is, first of all, untrue, but even if it were true, even if every business had equal access to every governmental good, it would still be true that, therefore, the business is not succeeding on hard work alone.

Your main problem here— a completely self-created problem— is that you’re pretending Obama is asking the question “Why do some businesses succeed, and others fail?” That’s how you’re twisting the question. That’s not what Obama is talking about. He’s not being comparative.

It’s informative that you can’t look at anything other than a competitive, comparative lens.

Buck Tue, Jul 24, 2012 7:11:59pm

re: #32 andres

To create a “healthy business environment”, the government most do nothing.

No that is not really what they are saying. The police and fire department are not in the way if they exist to help a business when they are on fire or being robbed.

“In the way” not the same as “exist”.

Concentrate on the “in the way” part.

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Jul 24, 2012 7:13:12pm

re: #33 Buck

Ok we again are having a problem with a common language. Do you think that someone is hitting the President? Actually striking him?

Or do you think that MAYBE he is using a common term that means surprised or shocked?

Struck actually doesn’t mean either surprised or shocked. It means you found something significant.

“I was struck by Titian’s use of color” doesn’t mean I was surprised or shocked by it, just that I found it noteworthy.

So yeah, I guess we are having that common language problem where you re-interpret what someone else said in order to paint them in a dishonestly bad light because you can’t actually make an honest argument.

Buck Tue, Jul 24, 2012 7:24:31pm

you’re pretending Obama is asking the question “Why do some businesses succeed, and others fail?”

Well, that is your interpretation. I interpret his words differently.

look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own.

That is what he said. NOW you can argue that he meant something different. You can dissect and reword it.

I still think it sounds pretty bad.

It is not dishonest to hear what I and a lot of people heard. It is not racist.

finding it noteworthy by people who think. I think that is a stretch.

You only find it noteworthy, but also have to correct them.

Fine, that is not how I read it. I think he is saying surprised and shocked.

HOWEVER if you put the word “Struck” to replace the word “shocked” in my post, it would not diminish the meaning.

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Jul 24, 2012 7:35:19pm

re: #37 Buck

Well, that is your interpretation. I interpret his words differently.

No, this really isn’t about interpretation. Nowhere in Obama’s speech is he asking the question or talking about why some businesses fail, and others succeed. Throughout the whole speech, he’s just pointing out that businesses depend on the things that government provides— roads, educated populace, etc. He’s pointing out all the ways that the government adds to the wealth of this country by supporting businesses.

I fully understand that to your hyperpartisan mind— I mean, last thread we talked about this you were unwilling to admit that you owned any debt to any teacher who had taught you anything along the way, so you’re huffing some serious bootstrap— you may not be able to accept Obama is saying this very simple, straightforward, and obviously true thing. You may need to twist it until it becomes something untrue, because you can’t deal with the fact that Obama is a quite centrist, middle-of-the-road guy, but it doesn’t change for anyone else when you do that. Nobody is convinced by you.

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 24, 2012 7:46:24pm

re: #14 Buck

Individual Achievement is the subject.

“Yes but it is not in a vacuum” is trying to have it both ways.

It is like saying that the winner of the race didn’t win as an individual. After all someone made the track and the shoes.

No, it’s not. Individual achievement is a great thing, but it does not happen in a vacuum. This is not an either-or situation. It’s a basic truth about life.

As for the winner of that race, have you EVER seen someone win a big sporting event without naming everyone who helped get them there? Athletes don’t stand alone either. Their determination, their skills, their individual achievement is the final deciding factor between them, but no one does anything big in sports without coaches, family, sponsors, other athletes, organizations, scholarships…and these are GOOD things, because they enable people to achieve greatness.

No runner in the world stands on the finish line and says “I did this alone.” But people throw a shit-fit if it’s suggested that anyone helped a business owner?

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 24, 2012 7:47:29pm

re: #24 Buck

And you SEEM TO think that anyone with the same “whole system” would win just as much. I don’t.

No one is saying that. You’re hearing it, because you desperately want this to be about denigrating individual achievement.

Locker Tue, Jul 24, 2012 7:48:39pm

re: #38 Obdicut

How much do I love the fact that you do all the work for me? Very, very much.

Just like to agree and state that this isn’t any kind of new routine, which you already know. Buck comes on some thread with a mission, takes whatever is there and ignores it, twists it, misquotes it, ignores correction, ignores real information and expects everyone to just nod their head in agreement.

No.

Here, we’ll let an honest “conservative” explain it to him…

“Clara, how do you feel about the president saying that you needed help to start this business?” Kilmeade asked. “And just speak from within.”

“I would say that’s rude because we worked very hard to build this business — but we did have help,” Clara insisted.

Don’t have to like the truth but you can accept it.

Buck Tue, Jul 24, 2012 7:55:01pm

re: #38 Obdicut

you were unwilling to admit that you owned any debt to any teacher who had taught you anything along the way

Now who is being a liar? You are stating what you think I was unwilling to admit. Funny guy…..no wait. Liar!

I have been clear that I consider roads bridges and education to be common denominators.

I think it is your hyperpartisan mind that is purposely rewriting what the President said.

“look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own.”

The idea that he is not talking about why some succeed is really missing the entire point.

“look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.”

I think he is being very clear.

“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help”

I think that is exactly what he is talking about.

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Jul 24, 2012 7:59:08pm

re: #42 Buck

“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help”

I think that is exactly what he is talking about.

Sure. I’ll go for that. And that’s an entirely true statement. Nobody becomes a success all on their own, except in the most rarified of cases. Nobody becomes a success in business solely because of themselves, with no help from anyone else. If you think someone did, name them.

euphgeek Tue, Jul 24, 2012 8:51:31pm

re: #19 Buck

No, you proved my point that you are not understanding what I am saying.

No one is saying that the government should provide NO services. Only that those services are provided to EVERYONE. Everyone. The road is made and can be used by anyone who wishes to create a business that needs people to use it.

Yes, and that is my point. Nobody makes it on their own. You’re attacking President Obama for saying something you yourself are right now agreeing with.

Listen to the part that Obama says that he is shocked that people think they work harder or are smarter. There are lots of people who work hard and are smart. That is mocking the people who are past the idea that the government made a road. The road is made and can be used by anyone who wishes to create a business that needs people to use it. Same with the police, or whatever you can name.

Obama said no such thing and your quote verifies this. He said he was struck (or shocked, whatever you prefer) because people think they were successful ONLY because they are smart or worked hard. Do you think that everyone who is smart or works hard should be successful?

The issue is Individual Achievement. That is what people heard Obama mock and minimize. They can’t play the whole speech in a 30 second commercial, but any clip you find makes the President sound bad.

The only reason people heard Obama “mock and minimize” individual achievement is because Mitt Romney and Fox News lied about what Obama said. If those exact same words had come out of a Republican’s mouth, they would have been talking about how wise and patriotic that Republican was.

euphgeek Tue, Jul 24, 2012 9:07:08pm

re: #42 Buck

“look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.”

I think he is being very clear.

“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help”

I think that is exactly what he is talking about.

So exactly where do you disagree with Obama? What did he say that is wrong? What is different between what you (and Mitt Romney, by the way) have been saying all along and what Obama said here?

JamesWI Wed, Jul 25, 2012 12:27:19am

I hate to be repetitive, but this thread needs it:

Buck……still a dumbass.

Buck Wed, Jul 25, 2012 6:09:18am

re: #43 Obdicut

Sure. I’ll go for that. And that’s an entirely true statement. Nobody becomes a success all on their own, except in the most rarified of cases. Nobody becomes a success in business solely because of themselves, with no help from anyone else. If you think someone did, name them.

Well then that is the difference. You think that the help is what made them successful. That is not the reason for their success.

I have said it multiple times, and I think I have been very clear.

The people offended by the Presidents speech have heard the whole thing. The context still sounds bad. They would be offended by what you wrote as well. They are past the idea that the government made a road. The road is made and can be used by anyone who wishes to create a business that needs people to use it. Same with the police, or whatever you can name.

This is about individual achievement. You either believe in it, or you don’t.

Nobody becomes a success in business solely because of themselves, with no help from anyone else.

There you go. That is what you believe. And that is what I think the President believes. And that is what the criticism is based on.

Buck Wed, Jul 25, 2012 6:11:20am

re: #45 euphgeek

So exactly where do you disagree with Obama? What did he say that is wrong? What is different between what you (and Mitt Romney, by the way) have been saying all along and what Obama said here?

I will speak for me only.

I don’t think that the help is what made them successful. That is not the reason for their success.

That is where I disagree with Obama.

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Wed, Jul 25, 2012 6:11:45am

re: #47 Buck

Well then that is the difference. You think that the help is what made them successful. That is not the reason for their success.

Nope. I think the help contributed to their success. I don’t think any one thing made them successful.

There you go. That is what you believe. And that is what I think the President believes. And that is what the criticism is based on.

Then please, Buck, name a single person who has succeeded solely because of themselves, with no help from anyone else.

Buck Wed, Jul 25, 2012 6:18:13am

re: #49 Obdicut

It would be useless, as we have a different understanding of what the phrase

succeeded solely because of themselves,

means.

Did they use roads and bridges at any point in their lives? Of course. Did they get an education? Yes.

However, as I have explained multiple times, we should be talking about what the difference was individually, not the advantages they had with everyone else.

The line “you didn’t build that” is offensive because it is irrelevant.

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Wed, Jul 25, 2012 6:20:51am

re: #50 Buck

Nope, I’m not talking about roads and bridges or an education. For the purposes of this argument, I’ll grant the obvious untruth that everyone has equal access to those things.

So go ahead and name someone who succeeded solely because of themselves.

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Wed, Jul 25, 2012 6:21:45am

re: #50 Buck

The line “you didn’t build that” is offensive because it is irrelevant.

It’s relevant because the atavistic GOP wants to cut, cut, cut government spending, and Obama is pointing out the many ways that business would be impossible without the things that government provides.

It’s a really simple, obvious point, and it takes a determined, fanatical partisan to miss it.

Buck Wed, Jul 25, 2012 6:30:31am

re: #52 Obdicut

It’s relevant because the atavistic GOP wants to cut, cut, cut government spending, and Obama is pointing out the many ways that business would be impossible without the things that government provides.

It’s a really simple, obvious point, and it takes a determined, fanatical partisan to miss it.

No, that is not the reason. However for “Obdicut the ventriloquist” that helps you make sense of the push back. Obama wasn’t talking about making business possible. He was talking about success. Businesses are are successful because of the things government provides.

The difference is clear to a lot of people.

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Wed, Jul 25, 2012 6:35:25am

re: #53 Buck

Businesses are successful for a multitude of reasons, including, yes, an infrastructure. Your argument has gotten so twisted I can’t even really tell what you think you’re arguing anymore. I think your’e still holding onto the obviously false idea that Obama was talking about why one business succeeds but another doesn’t, but it’s hard to tell now.

Are you going to provide an example of a person who became a business success without any help (leaving aside the obvious help they received in having an infrastructure, financial system, legal system, education, etc.)

Buck Wed, Jul 25, 2012 6:35:34am

re: #51 Obdicut

Nope, I’m not talking about roads and bridges or an education. For the purposes of this argument, I’ll grant the obvious untruth that everyone has equal access to those things.

So go ahead and name someone who succeeded solely because of themselves.

Again it would be useless, as we have a different understanding of what the phrase “succeeded solely because of themselves” means. You can always find something that you feel made them successful.

Otherwise my answer is all of them. Including you. Whatever you want to name that made you successful, I will simply reply that whatever that was, if it was done to or given to someone else, it would not mean that they would be successful. It was your brains and hard work that made you stand out. There are a lot of people who could have been given the same things you were, and still they might have failed.

euphgeek Wed, Jul 25, 2012 6:37:02am

re: #48 Buck

I will speak for me only.

I don’t think that the help is what made them successful. That is not the reason for their success.

That is where I disagree with Obama.

So if the help didn’t make them successful, why don’t you advocate for businesses building their own roads and bridges, hiring their own private security force and putting out their own fires? After all, none of that help made them successful according to you.

Buck Wed, Jul 25, 2012 6:39:16am

re: #56 euphgeek

So if the help didn’t make them successful, why don’t you advocate for businesses building their own roads and bridges, hiring their own private security force and putting out their own fires? After all, none of that help made them successful according to you.

the successful business owner doesn’t need to give credit to the roads that were built, or the government who invented the internet. Everyone got that. The business owner is just fine believing they worked harder and were smarter than the people who didn’t create the business.

Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Wed, Jul 25, 2012 6:41:22am

re: #55 Buck

Again it would be useless, as we have a different understanding of what the phrase “succeeded solely because of themselves” means. You can always find something that you feel made them successful.

Then demonstrate how wrong I am by naming the person and them showing how what I am saying contributed to their success did not, in fact.

I think you can’t name anyone because you realize the essential absurdity of your position. Every business owner I know gives credit to his employees, his partners, his family, his teachers, etc. That’s because they’re sane, rational people and not Ayn Rand robot capitalist caricatures.

euphgeek Wed, Jul 25, 2012 6:44:58am

re: #57 Buck

the successful business owner doesn’t need to give credit to the roads that were built, or the government who invented the internet. Everyone got that. The business owner is just fine believing they worked harder and were smarter than the people who didn’t create the business.

They don’t need to give credit, but they still benefited from them, which was Obama’s point. Without those roads, law enforcement officers and the internet, none of those businesses would have been successful. You are willfully ignoring that in order to try to score political points. Romney has said exactly the same thing in the past. No different. Apparently, you are trying so hard to disagree with Obama that you are disagreeing with Romney and American exceptionalism.

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